Wednesday, October 04, 2006

Sites that made me go hm....

Here are a number of sites that I came across this past month that I thought it would be interesting to highlight.
In general, I try to keep the material I put up constructive, moderate, and progressive towards a just and sustainable peace in the middle east and I think these links share that.
I'm sure there are others out there but these are the ones that I've come across and that've caught my attention.

If anyone would like to add any I invite them to do so in the comments section. Oh, and you can add any comments about the sites linked to in this post too.

20 comments:

  1. I would like to play the role of lirun here, and to write http://www.emspeace.blogspot.com/

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  2. sorry i thought i was on enouther blog, you surly don't know who is lirun....

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  3. Teapot11:02 AM

    Actually u can take all those arguments and turn them around like zis:

    - Why would the US send aid to Lebanon which attacked and committed war crimes against Israel?

    - More violence (Hizb_Iran killing and kidnapping) will never lead to justice.

    - Lebanese say no to Hizb_Iran war crimes.

    And so on...
    Criticizing Israel is just what Hizb_Iran needs.

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  4. I take it Lirun likes to advertize his/her site quite a lot?

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  5. Teapot6:11 PM

    the arguments listed on the sites u mentioned.

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  6. Yeah I figured, but these sites are separate and independent so I was wondering which argument to which site specifically...that would be more conducive to the discussion.

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  7. Teapot10:52 PM

    My point is that the problem in Lebanon is not Israel. Hizb_Iran are Lebanese. These sites claim that there is a problem with Israel that causes trouble to Lebanon.

    As u know if any countries outside Lebanon are responsible they are Iran and Syria, not Israel.

    There was a nice economic growth in the north of Israel, and it was destroyed by LEBANON.

    Why would u shift the blame to Israel? u are not naive to think throwing blame outside Lebanon actually helps it?

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  8. Teapot we're not going to get into these circular arguments about which country is more righteous and which country is the source of ALL problems in the Middle East.

    In my opinion there is much to be said about Israel and its dealings with the Lebanese. There is also much to be said about the Lebanese and the way they've conducted themselves, and theres even more to be said about the Syrians and the Iranians. What I refuse to say is that any one country is completely blameless, that would be naiive.

    Anyway that should pretty much end that discussion, although I encourage people to discuss specific issues retlated to the sites.

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  9. Battal Agha8:01 PM

    My only comment is that THIS IS TRUE DEMOCRACY and shows that there are people in Israel and outside who are ready to stand up and fight for peace. The problem however is that I have not seen anywhere, but really anywhere some counterparts in the Arab or Muslim worlds with whome one wopuld connect and try to make something good out of the Middle East mess. You whould realize that to clap, you need TWO hands. Here, I see only one hand extended and no one at the other side. That is really a pity...

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  10. Well when I look at the plethora of Lebanese blogs now on the net, and actually read whats written, I see the extended hand which you don't seem to recognize.

    Most Lebanese want peace, and most Arabs want peace, but what we all don't want is an unjust settlement conveniently referred to as peace. Its not an easy thing and good, decent people have tried to move towards a just (relatively speaking of course) peace only to be tripped up by extremists (both Israeli and Arab).

    Eitherway, the combatants for peace site includes both Palestinians and Israelis.

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  11. Blacksmith Jade said...

    By the way, did you check out that Jewish Conscience site? What did you think? Too far to the left for your taste? I guess we should continue this part of the converstaion in that post's comment section.

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    I think nothing about this Jewish conscience site because in the good old days of the left something like 20% of israelis were thinking like this. Israeli academy used top be 90% of these people. I have friends who think like this.

    I don't know how the things are in that bastion of liberties to the north but here it's normal and acceptable that people have old sorts of views and nobody gets particularly excited about it. This kind of arguement like 'oh. there are even israelis who think israel is bad' ... It's like i would start quoting muslims who say that islam is vicious in the sense that 'oh..there are even muslims who say that islam is bad'.

    It just shows what Lebanon really is in terms of pluralism of opinions. Come to Israel. I will show you what it means to be a pluralistic society.

    P.S

    reposted at your request

    I by the way posted another one a few days ago here and it didn't go through. I dont know about cluster bombs but sensorship is ugly

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  12. I didn't point out that site to show you that there are people in Israel (and Jews abroad in general) who criticize Israel. I wanted what you thought about some of the arguments there.

    For instance, in a video on that site, one speaker urges her audience to take note of the suffering inflicted on the Palestinian people through the occupation and that although the Jewish people have suffered throughout history, they do not have a monopoly on suffering (or the world's sympathy) and should acknowledge the pain felt these people. That kind of stuff. I was wondering what you, personally, thought of it...purely out of curiosity ( i.e. the question isn't a setup).

    PS - Didn't see the comment you're talking about. Put it up again if you like. Do you feel this blog is censored...overtly censored?

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  13. I don't think in these categories B.S. I think practically.

    I am not a moral authority for the rest of the world and if anything, it's ridiculous that the Arabs would try to play this role.

    I don't think that Israel is a perfect country or Israelis are perfect people but it's nothing compared to what i see Arabs doing to each other in their wars and civil wars.

    The palestinians got their pain, We got ours. I am not talking about this because it's irrelevant. It would be enough to say that i barely didn't get hit in one of the suicide attacks and i know what the center of jerusalem looks like when meat of my people is scattered all around. People should keep these personal stories to themselves and avoid idle moralizing. It's not worth time to be dwelling on this stuff and i know from experience that its' counter productive to bring it to discussion.

    As to the palestinains I was an Oslo supporter and i voted for both Rabin and Barak. Outline of the Israeli Palestinian conflict is very clear to me. It's more or less what Barak offered the palestinians in terms of territory, shared control of sacred places or to bring the UN there. Right of return only in the West Bank/Gaza. No refugees enter Israel proper.

    The yankees as the sponsors of the peace process would provide the palestinains with a few billions dollars annualy as they do with Egypt/Jordan. Four billions promised to Arafat at the end of Oslo should have been more than enough, if used wisely, both to resettle the refugees and to make West Bank prosper. Because wisely is not a word that can describe the way the palestinians usually do things it's of limited importance.

    And anyway i think that the palestinians are hopeless idiots and so whatever agreement we can reach with them eventually, they will end up in a mess and will drag us there too.

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  14. Teapot11:08 PM

    About this blog being censored, every time i tried to post this link, the comment wasn't posted:

    http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1156801811754&call_pageid=968332188854&col=968350060724

    Where Ghazi Hamad said about Palis:
    "We've all been attacked by the bacteria of stupidity,"

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  15. Teapot, I assume you mean when u tried to post that link on other sites it got blocked. This is the first time u try to post it here.

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  16. Arabic Coffee Pot11:23 PM

    Hamad also said a lot of other things (according to that link), I don't think it serves the purposes of constructive bridge building when you only highlight that part. Especially as that article highlights concilliatory(-ish) words from what would normally be described as an extremist point of view.

    Wouldn't it serve your interests better to encourage such moves to moderation? Or would you rather that extremism be bred on the other side in order to fuel your own brand of extremism?

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  17. PS - Didn't see the comment you're talking about. Put it up again if you like. Do you feel this blog is censored...overtly censored?

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    I don't know if it's censored . Just that post disappeared. Also this method of checking comments before posting them has its downside. It stalls conversations when the moderator can't attend.

    the post that got lost was something about this entended hand Israelis fail to recognize. First of all Israelis already extended their hand and that hand was simply rejected by Sanyora. Though Olmert and Livni made it public that they are interested in negotiations and they are ready to discuss Shebaa and everything. So who is failing recognize whose hand?

    Though i bet that sanyora is simply manouvering between Nasrallah and other lebanese factions. Probably lebanon can neither declare war on Israel nor make peace with us. Probably Lebanon simply can't make any far reaching decisions at all.

    Second, declarations like most Arabs want peace is void of essence. Most Israelis also want peace. And Nasrallah wants peace. And Hamas. Hamas say - just dismantle your state and enjoy your stay as part of our future universal khalifat. we muslims are peaceful people, tolerant of minorities.

    And the palestinians want peace. they just say to us - let 4 million of our refugees into Israel and there ll be peace here as never before. That most arabs say they want peace or condemn violence means nothing. The devil is in the details .

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  18. Teapot3:13 PM

    I tried posting it during the discussion with "Arabic Coffee" about why Egypt and Jordan not building factories for Palis.
    In the post titled "Debunking the Coup Plot: Part II: A Question of Semantics"
    I thought it was censored.

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  19. yes i very much like to advertise the blog.. i crave peace and i want people discussing it rather than just war.. i hope www.emspeace.blogspot.com makes you go hmm too

    :)

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