Sunday, August 27, 2006

KNOW THY ENEMY - PART I : PREFACE


"So it is said that if you know others and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles"
Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century BC

As the dust settles on our once-lovely coastal country, the results of the distressing events that took place in Lebanon in the last month are emerging on the world stage. Any moral person will require that justice be upheld for what is clearly a breach of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War – which Israel ratified on December 8th 1949 – and rightly so. But strangely enough, no such claim is to be heard; no pointed finger of blame at Israel for its brutal punishment of the people of Lebanon, let alone any talks of proportionality regarding this conflict.

What I am proposing to show you is that this in not a historical aberration.

You quickly find out when dealing with Israel that it cannot be compared with any other state. Being built exclusively for Jews, this state is based on traditions and ways of thinking that have developed amid Jews for centuries. The notions that Jews are special, and – more importantly – that their suffering is special, are the root of the issue. These trends are reflected in every aspect of the modern state of Israel. This is a state that knows no restrictions. It is a state that both believes, and uses as corroboration for its own belligerence, the view that its very existence is perpetually at stake. Given this basis, anything is acceptable to guarantee its survival. Israel is a state that clearly deems that the rules which apply to all other states do not apply to it.

As I stated earlier, Jewish suffering and victimhood create this “Jewish uniqueness”. Jews have undoubtedly suffered. The Holocaust, which is the archetype of Jewish suffering, has been stripped of its historical status, and is now being regarded by religious and secular alike, as a piece of theology and therefore beyond inquiry.

We can argue that modern Jews aren’t suffering anymore, but their history of suffering is not just an incontrovertible past. For many Jews, it may become a possible future. Zionism plays into this fear, by confirming that Jews are unique in their suffering and is unequivocal that Jews should ‘return’ to a land given to – only – them simply because they are not safe anywhere else on earth.

This is the problem with Modern Zionism. It articulates Jewish character but also empowers it. It tells Jews and numerous others too, that Jews can achieve what they have always dreamed of. It takes the perfectly acceptable religious feelings of Jews, or if you prefer, their harmless delusions, and attemps to turn them into reality. When empowered with a state, a powerful army and armadas of F16s fighter jets, these notions - specialness, choseness and supremacism - become a concern for us all.

It is truly ironic that this Jewish empowerment has come to most resemble those empowerments under which Jews have suffered the most. Empowered Christianity, also a marriage of faith and power, enforced its ideology and pursued its dissidents and enemies with no greater fervor than has empowered Judaism. In its zeal and self belief, Zionism has come to resemble the most brutal of modern ideologies. But unlike the aggressive rationality of Stalinism, willing to sacrifice millions for political and economic revolution, this Jewish ideology, in its zealotry and irrationality, resembles more the National Socialism which condemned millions for the attainment of a nonsensical racial and ethnic supremacy.

Naturally there are differences but there are also similarities. National Socialism, like Zionism, gained credibility as a means to correct historical wrongs done to a victimized people. National Socialism, like Zionism, also sought to maintain the racial/ethnic purity of one group and to maintain the rights of that ethnic group over others, and National Socialism, like Zionism, also proposed an almost mystical right of that group to a land. Also, both National Socialism and Zionism shared a common interest – to separate Jews from non-Jews, in this case to remove Jews from Europe – and actively co-operated in the attainment of this aim.

56 comments:

  1. Anonymous6:57 AM

    You must admit that in the history of Israel, it probably has not seen much that might lead it to believe that it is involved in anything other than an existential fight.

    That said, was the current war fought over religious values of the Israeli state? Does Israel seek to gain territory in Lebanon? Why do you think Israel engaged in this war?

    ReplyDelete
  2. This article is just a smart way to say that the israelis are nazies. Without discussing the validity of this claim i would ask - now what ? after this 'brilliant' analysis what would you do? it s advancing your understanding of israel to the point that you know how to negotiate with it? or it helps to build bridges ?

    ReplyDelete
  3. Lets say the national socialists of germany were defeated in ww2 after they swallowed the whole of europe. If people are resposnible in any way for what they think and say, the bottomline of this article should be - lets prepare for another round with Israel. Are you sure you want to have it ?

    ReplyDelete
  4. Teapot10:02 AM

    From reading the "How to dismantle Hezbollah" manuals and the article "Of Hard Times" about how Koronos fled Lebanon, I thought your enemy was Hezbollah and Syria. Focus people Focus!

    UNESCO treaty declares, "Wars start in the minds of people."

    ReplyDelete
  5. Anonymous10:26 AM

    extremism in all its forms is yours, mine, and the entire human race's enemy

    ReplyDelete
  6. Dear Teapot. If that indeed was your impression than you are illiterate my friend

    ReplyDelete
  7. No such claim is heard because Lebanese civilians are not "protected persons" under the 1949 convention: "Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals...nationals of a co-belligerent State, shall not be regarded as protected persons..."

    As Hizbollah is Lebanese and part of the Lebanese government, not an occupying power, Lebanon's civilian population is "fair game" under the 1949 Convention. Even so, Israel did not wantonly target Lebanon's civilian population. If they had, Beirut would look like Dresden, 1945, and the dead would number in the tens of thousands.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Been away for a while…

    I’ve just came back from about 3 weeks of army service in the IDF including about 10 days of active war in the Israeli artillery forces.

    There were nights it seems like a movie. I heard HA rockets whistling above my head hitting Israeli towns. I saw the forests of northern Israel burning, coloring the night sky with orange. I saw the MLRS firing back leaving a trail of smoke across the sky. I heard the machine guns, the tanks, the planes, the choppers, the cannons. I heard some kind of an explosion every 10 seconds. I saw HA rockets hitting 300 feet from me. We fired back. We destroyed one HA rocket launcher. We killed 3 HA fighters. We nailed one HA anti-tank unit. The war ended. I went home back to my family. I saw my wife and kids again. I survived this round.

    p.s.
    I met with many soldiers from different units in the front and talked to a lot of my friends that came back from the war. Everywhere I asked, Israeli combat soldiers describe the same thing – in many cases they were held back in order not to harm Lebanese civilians. Examples: A combat pilot friend of mine estimates 80-90 percent of his targets were empty fields. My artillery unit from time to time fired more than 100 shells to the same target (one spot on some empty field). A soldier I met on the front from another artillery unit said they saw HA fighters in a village bellow them but didn’t get a clearance to fire at them. 2 friends of mine (one from an anti-tanks unit, and one from an infantry unit) say the same thing. Everywhere you ask it’s the same story. It seems like the IDF was held back by the politicians in order to avoid Lebanese civilian casualties, many times increasing the risk to its own soldiers. I think that if the IDF was given a free hand, HA would have been reduced to Nasrallah and maybe another 10 people that are hiding in his bunker.

    Glad to be home again.
    Peace to all.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Solomon2 and John Smith.

    First off Solomon2, the southern suburbs of Beirut do look like Dresden 1945, and the so does the entirety of southern Lebanon. You could stand on a bucket and get a nice view of the entire area. Not one building was left standing in certain areas and villages.

    Furthermore, John Smith. There is not much more you could have done. (If indeed you are an Israeli soldier) You already reduced entire communities to rubble. Unless you wanted to pulverize the debris as well, I think you pretty

    By the way, those hundreds of Israeli soldiers who died in your ground operations, are they also a result of your "holding back" or rather of your ineffiency and inexperience? Those convoys of fleeing civilians, are they also an outcome of you holding your fire? Of course, lets not forgot the Red Cross vehicles which the IAF targeted...is that "holding back" or rather target practice? Next time we'll make sure to drive our injured around in vehicles marked with the Star of David...maybe you'll think twice about targeting those.

    ReplyDelete
  10. If anyone has links to one of the movies showing HA using Red Cross vehicles, please post the links.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Well. It was a war, wissam.. Mind you, i dont think that the arab armies fight their wars better. I actually think they are fighting them worse. I am not sure about hundreds of IDF soldiers, there was one hundred and something. I admit there was an issue of efficiency. I hope in our next round we would improve on this.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Teapot11:05 PM

    John Smith,

    U mean the old rust hole (aka "The Red Cross Ambulance Incident"):

    http://www.zombietime.com/fraud/ambulance/

    ReplyDelete
  13. Anonymous12:38 AM

    If killing 1300 civilians is the pure in arms IDF holding back then I don't exactly know what lashing out would look like ? Probably like what solomon2 suggested with his Dresden picture.
    Solomon2, you see, the problem is that Israel wants to win the war on all levels, be it from international opinion, to cyberspace (like here) to the battleground. I'm sure that it is not out of your purity of arms (which are anything but pure, more like children's killing arms) that you did not turn Beirut into Dresden but out of fear of the international opinion. You see, you want to kill just enough so as you don't exceed your American allowed threshold and so as not to lose the favorable opinion of the world.... You were sigled out by Human Rights watch, Amnesty international, by every Western MP that visits Lebanon as war criminals and for utter disregard for civilans. In 2 words: Utterly Disgusting !!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  14. Anonymous12:40 AM

    Very sad article, I'm sorry you feel this way about Jews and Israelis as a people. It seems you have more in common with Nasrallah and your country's Iranian pimps than you would have us believe.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Israel has never aimed at innocent civilians, and yes, 1300 civilians is when the IDF is holding back. War sucks. Don’t start one.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Anonymous1:56 AM

    John Smith you should ashamed of yourself, if only you had an ounce of conscience you would have refused to shell civilians, you are a de-facto war criminal, I wonder how you can sleep at night, haven't you seen what the artillery did on the other side? Can’t you see the children torn into pieces????
    If your army can't or won't hit the real source of the Katyoucha rockets (HA or its backers in Iran and Syria), then you find it okay to score results, any results? You need innocent blood to be spilled so you can tell your parents we've got results? we are retaliating??? Shame on you, shame on you...Army of cowards

    ReplyDelete
  17. The brave John Smith and his friends on the IDF fought on the battle field for weeks defending their homeland against unprovoked HA ‘brave’ attacks from within Lebanese civilian population on Israeli towns, risking their lives while missiles and rockets landing near by, while the ‘brave’ anonymous risked his fingers while commenting on internet blogs.

    And no, we only fired on HA targets. We don’t aim at innocent people. My conscious is clean.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Anon 5:38:

    I agree, you don't know what "lashing out would look like".

    The problem is that "Israel wants to win the war"? So the war itself isn't a problem with you, just that Israel wants to "win" it?

    I am an American. If I had been running Israel the past thirty days, I might well have chosen to deal much more harshly with Lebanon than Israel did. For what Hezbollah demanded and Lebanon acquiesced to was to endorse the principle that bashing the brains out of little Jewish girls while enjoying the fruits of peace was the sort of behavior to be accepted and encouraged worldwide. That was too much even for the Peace Now movement. Hence the recent conflict.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Hello all, and thank your for your increased interest in this blog. We are trying to create a community in which people of divergent views can converge and exchange ideas and notions concerning the current events in the Middle-East, specifically Lebanon.

    I will respond to your numerous comments to the best of my knowledge, and in the sole purpose of clarifying my views. I would like to note that the content of the current post on which you are commenting is, to many like me, self-evident. You can see it in every press conference that Israeli officials hold. You can see it in the way they lash out at any dissenting view. You can see it in the way they slaughter civilians in Gaza and Lebanon.

    The clever component of the Zionist mechanism succeeds at conveying to naive eyes, through endless repetition (propaganda) in all forms of media, that Israel seems like a benevolent nation floating amid hordes of salivating, barbaric, back water countries. It plays on the willingly shortened attention span of the viewer – or reader… they still exist! – by truncating the timeline of incidents involving it so as to present the facts in a favorable light. More disquieting is the fact that they can manipulate international laws – U.N. resolutions - through their parent-country, the USA, seemingly at will, thus lulling both their national and international audience in believing that they stand on so high a moral ground. The phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public pertaining to human rights violations in the West Bank alone should be a wake up call for any “peace loving” person. That is, however, another topic altogether, and will be dealt with in another installation in the current series.

    Now, to answer a few of your questions.

    Was the current war fought over religious values of the Israeli state? Does Israel seek to gain territory in Lebanon? Why do you think Israel engaged in this war?

    It should be clear to you that religion was not the topic being discussed here, rather Zionism. Zionism is, in sum, the constant and unrelenting effort to realize the national and universal vision of the prophets of Israel. The practice of Judaism is devoted to the study and observance of the laws and commandments, as written in the Torah. Zionism, although interwoven in Judaic notions, is completely detached from it, and is of a more secular nature.

    But to answer your question, in short, no.

    If you refer to one of my previous posts (2006 Lebanon War - Demo for Iran)or to another post by Nassim (Peace?) you can begin to distinguish the outlines of a plan between Israel and the USA which will serve to “reshape the Middle-East”. In one of the referenced articles, this is clearly evident:

    “President Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney were convinced … that a successful Israeli Air Force bombing campaign against Hezbollah’s heavily fortified underground-missile and command-and-control complexes in Lebanon could ease Israel’s security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential American preemptive attack to destroy Iran’s nuclear installations, some of which are also buried deep underground.

    Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah—and shared it with Bush Administration officials—well before the July 12th kidnappings.”

    This article is just a smart way to say that the israelis are nazies. Without discussing the validity of this claim i would ask - now what ? after this 'brilliant' analysis what would you do? it s advancing your understanding of israel to the point that you know how to negotiate with it? or it helps to build bridges ?

    It is the intended purpose of this article - and this blog as a whole - to educate the reader on the sundry facets of this conflict rather than forecast state policy. In understanding the nature of Israeli rule, as well as the basis for its international ‘relations’, I believe that the reader can have a more comprehensible understanding of the situation at hand. Let me make it perfectly clear that I am not attempting to promote extremism, anti-Semitism (I am a Semite), or hatred in any form. What I am trying to convey to the reader is the notion that it is only a very small percentage of Jewish ‘eminent leaders’ which, having seized the right climate in which to diffuse their message, mobilized millions in fulfillment of their hegemonic plans. As the post being currently discussed is only a preface, there wasn’t enough room to expose the whole of the substance. This is however the heart of the topic being discussed in this series, and will be thoroughly investigated in future episodes. Stay tuned!

    If people are resposnible in any way for what they think and say, the bottomline of this article should be - lets prepare for another round with Israel. Are you sure you want to have it ?

    I do not advocate violence as a solution to anything worth fighting for.
    Ironic, I know. Unrealistic too, but that is my opinion. Where in my article did you read that we should prepare for another round?? May I suggest that, in the future, you keep your delusions in check, and post constructive comments which may have an enlightening effect on readers? Or maybe you’re not sure you want to have that…

    From reading the "How to dismantle Hezbollah" manuals and the article "Of Hard Times" about how Koronos fled Lebanon, I thought your enemy was Hezbollah and Syria. Focus people Focus!

    You are right Teapot, our enemies are Hizb Allah and Syria. Our only friend in the area is Israel. Thank you for helping us in our everlasting struggle against the greatest manifestation of evil yet to be seen: humanitarian-terrorism. We fully understand that in helping us, you had no choice but to destroy our country. That was evidently Hizb Allah’s fault, sine they were firing rockets at Israel from houses, bridges, lighthouses, satellite stations, power plants, airports, U.N. bases, and even bomb shelters containing women and children. Thanks again.

    As Hizbollah is Lebanese and part of the Lebanese government, not an occupying power, Lebanon's civilian population is "fair game" under the 1949 Convention.

    Solomon2, thank you for pointing out that the IDF may indiscriminately kill anybody in the south of Lebanon. If, indeed, this is a ‘legal loophole’, does it make it any less taxing on your conscience? In any case, your comments are going to be addressed in a separate future post/series dealing with U.N. resolutions.

    Very sad article, I'm sorry you feel this way about Jews and Israelis as a people. It seems you have more in common with Nasrallah and your country's Iranian pimps than you would have us believe.

    I am providing some insight which can help in explaining how a state can get away with murder. If you have any FACTS that can serve as counter-point, you are welcome to enlighten us.

    ReplyDelete
  20. BTW, there aren't any Israeli war crimes! Hezbollah and Lebanese war crimes yes, but not Israeli. Probably the NGOs and MPs are engaged in convenient fibs they deem appropriate to what they see as a fund-raising occasion. (I live in D.C., so I've seen how these things work.) For the 1949 Geneva Convention usually cited as being violated by Israel specifically rules out Lebanese civilians as a "protected party" because Hezbollah itself is Lebanese. On the other hand, kidnapping soldiers for the purpose of freeing criminals convicted under a justice system is a war crime. Go figure.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Solomon2, thank you for pointing out that the IDF may indiscriminately kill anybody in the south of Lebanon.

    The 1949 Geneva Convention seems to say it's all right to do so by bombing, but not in areas Israeli troops actually occupy. Israel, however, currently follows what it deems to be a higher standard of wartime conduct and chooses not to attack Lebanese civilians en masse, nor kill them "indiscriminately".

    Yet is there any doubt that if Israel-hating Arabs had the means and opportunity to do so, they would attempt to wipe out every Jew in Israel? Anthony, aren't you just trying to project the evils of others on to Israel itself, so you can feel more comfortable bashing it?

    ReplyDelete
  22. Salomon2, the premise on which you base your comments is that if given the chance, the israeli-hating Arabs would undoubdebly WIPE OUT EVEY JEW IN ISRAEL!

    You have essentially confirmed the existential notion that I described in my post, which is inevitably referred to whenever discussing Israeli-Arab relations. How could you possibly claim that Arabs have widely adopted this view? Do you have any idea how preposterous this is? You must know that the Palestinian population predating 1948 was essentially a mix of Arabs and Jews, and they coexisted very peacefully. It was only after WWII, when the Jews were empowered in the newly founded Israel that ARABS WERE UNJUSTLY ROBBED OF THEIR RIGHT OF SOVEREIGNTY! Even today, I assure you that most Arabs strive for peace, the right of sovereignty, and self-determination, not another Jewish Holocaust.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Non sequitur. You didn't read my posts carefully.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Are you saying that someone else logged in your account and typed this:

    Yet is there any doubt that if Israel-hating Arabs had the means and opportunity to do so, they would attempt to wipe out every Jew in Israel?

    ReplyDelete
  25. Because if you did type it yourself, then my response is, I believe, very clear.

    ReplyDelete
  26. If people are resposnible in any way for what they think and say, the bottomline of this article should be - lets prepare for another round with Israel. Are you sure you want to have it ?

    I do not advocate violence as a solution to anything worth fighting for.
    Ironic, I know. Unrealistic too, but that is my opinion. Where in my article did you read that we should prepare for another round?? May I suggest that, in the future, you keep your delusions in check, and post constructive comments which may have an enlightening effect on readers? Or maybe you’re not sure you want to have that…

    -----------

    Anthony you are simply trying to outsmart yourself. The case of chaimberlain and the german national socialists is a case celebre of the failure of apeacement policies. Which is why comparing Israel to Nazy Germany of course raises the question of the next round.

    But speaking in general all of your post is some nightmare from one thousand and one arabian nights with which arabs just love to scare each other. Its dealing with some virtual ideology of zionism. Zionism is dead word in Israel. Most people dont think in these terms.

    We have left, center and right politicians. The left argues for negogiated peace deals, peace for land. The center is for the unilateral disengagement from the region. The right says the arabs are monkeys and not serious about peace and negotiations. Who of them is zionist?

    Zionism was an idea of the national jewish state. From the moment it has been accompished zionism lost any relevance. Most people in isreal were born there and hebrew is their native language. They dont call themselves zionists. They call themselves israelis.

    Zionism does nt exist as an ideology today. There may be jews who would come to live in Israel from the US and Europe. On this occasion they may call themselves zionists. It says absolutely nothing about what they are thinking about the palestinian problem. They may be memebers of 'Peace now' movement.

    First of all define what is zionism and who is zionist. Then start talking scaring your readers with zionism.

    I was an oslo supporter a few years ago and would have supported any territorial compromise in return of reliable security guaranteees as it was done with egypt. Is it zionism or anti zionism?

    Now i think that we have nothing to negotiate with hamas because they are insane fanatics. I went back to being zionist again?

    Olmert says he wants to unilaterally wirhtdraw from the 80 % of the west bank. 20 % of the west bank is zionism or its half zionism. What the hell is this zionism you are talking about ?

    ReplyDelete
  27. "Israel-hating Arabs" should be interpreted as "those Arabs who hate Israel". The phrase does not include all Arabs.

    As for the "ROBBED" bit, my response concerning the Palestinian Arabs is here.

    ReplyDelete
  28. to nobody:

    by pointing out that Zionism has come to resemble National Socialism, I was referring to notions of ethnic supremacy, not necessarily NSist ideology of constant nationalist expansion. Indeed, Zionist goals include eventual world hegemony, but that's a secret, and I would greatly appreciate it if you didn't tell anybody.

    You claim that you have left, center and right politicians. The USA has a bipartisan system. The trick is making people believe that these parties are truly opposing factions, and are not in fact swayed by one and only one hand. It's a classic case of hydra; a many-headed menace that cannot be killed by a single direct hit, where all heads lead to the same body.

    As for scaring readers: I am writing what I believe to be correct information obtained after a lengthy research of credible sources. If the reality I expose is scary, then maybe readers ought to be scared by it.

    to solomon2:

    I have already posted my response in reference to your clarification on "those Arabs who hate Israel" in one of my previous posts.

    As for your claims concerning the Palestinian Arabs, I followed the link to your blog and read your comments.

    Here is the excerpt in question:

    unknown:I'm not pro-qaeda or pro-Hamas or pro-any extreme religious organization, including Israel. However I'm still too sensitive to Israel and its flag and will always consider it an occupier, never a friend. The way Israel was created out of nothing and the way palestenians were expelled from their lands is something the entire world should be ashamed of.

    solomon2:(sigh) Where does the idea come from that Jews "stole" land to establish Israel? And exactly who should be "ashamed" at "the way palestinians were expelled"?

    After their victory, Israel passed a law that allowed Arab refugees to re-settle in Israel provided they would sign a form in which they renounced violence, swore allegiance to the state of Israel, and became peaceful productive citizens. During the decades of this law’s tenure, more than 150,000 Arab refugees have taken advantage of it to resume productive lives in Israel.

    That's over a quarter of those who fled. None of the 700,000 Jews expelled from Arab-controlled areas since 1948 have ever been allowed back to their former homes.

    "The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, THEY ABANDONED THEM, FORCED THEM TO EMIGRATE AND TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe, as if we were condemmed to change places with them; they moved out of their ghettos and we occupied similar ones. The Arab States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the States of the world did so, and this is regrettable".

    - by Abu Mazen, from the article titled: "What We Have Learned and What We Should Do", published in Falastin el Thawra, the official journal of the PLO, of Beirut, in March 1976

    "Abu Mazen" is the nom de guerre of the current Palestinian President.


    I will answer you with a quote of my own:

    “Britain encouraged the growth of Zionism in Palestine in the early years of the First World War because she wanted American Jews to ally their country in the war against Turkey. Since the Tsar was already an ally against Germany, it was politically inconvenient to demand an end to anti-Semitism in Russia. The idea of setting Jews in Palestine, the British foreign office cabled two of its ambassadors in 1916, ‘ might be made far more attractive to the majority of Jews if it held at out to them that prospect than when in course of time the Jewish colonists in Palestine grew strong enough to cope with the Arab population they may be allowed to take the management of the internal affairs of Palestine… into their own hands… our soul object is to find an arrangement which would be so attractive to the majority of Jews as to enable us to strike a bargain for Jewish support.’

    The equally earnest Anglo-French declaration of 1918 promising the Arabs of former Ottoman colonies their independence if they supported the Allies against the Turks fell into much the same category, although it was not a promise that was intended to be kept.
    The Civil War in Palestine that followed the end of hostilities in Europe inevitably embraced the tired holders of the imperial mandate. From the desert of political opposition at Westminster, the old Zionist Churchill contemplated the murder of British troops by Jewish gunmen and pronounced Palestine a ‘hell-disaster’.

    The Arab armies that invaded the new Israel were driven out, together with between 500,000 to 700,000 Arab Palestinians whose homes had been in that part of Palestine that was now Israel or in those areas of Arab Palestine that the Israelis captured. For decades after their war of independence, the Israelis claimed that most of the Arab Palestinians had left of their own free will after being urged by Arab radio stations to leave their homes and take sanctuary in neighboring states until the Arab armies had conquered the upstart new Israeli nation. Israeli scholars now agree that these radio appeals were never broadcast and that the allegations were fraudulent. The Palestinian Arabs left their homes because they were frightened, often because they had heard stories – accounts which were perfectly true – of the massacre of Arabs civilians by Jewish gangs.”

    Robert Fisk, Pity the Nation, 2002, Thunder’s Mouth Press/Nation Books, p14, 15, 17.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Anthony said...

    to nobody:

    by pointing out that Zionism has come to resemble National Socialism, I was referring to notions of ethnic supremacy, not necessarily NSist ideology of constant nationalist expansion. Indeed, Zionist goals include eventual world hegemony, but that's a secret, and I would greatly appreciate it if you didn't tell anybody.

    You claim that you have left, center and right politicians. The USA has a bipartisan system. The trick is making people believe that these parties are truly opposing factions, and are not in fact swayed by one and only one hand. It's a classic case of hydra; a many-headed menace that cannot be killed by a single direct hit, where all heads lead to the same body.

    -----------

    This is called the protocols of the elders of zion. The fantacy about the jewish secret agenda to dominate the world was the cornerstone of the nazy ideology in Germany. You promote here absolutely the same idea only calling it by slightly different names. Indeed there is somebody here who resembles the national socialists of nazy germany and its you and your friends.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Dear nobody,

    So now I am a Nazi. May I ask which attribute have I displayed which made this comparison possible? Have I stated that I adhere to a superior race? Or have I declared my intent to annex neighboring blogs?

    I was under the impression that we were having an intelligent conversation, and I am attempting to understand what kind of point you are trying to make here. The only thing I can make out from your response is that you have sadly resorted to childish name-calling.

    This is an open forum. Any and all are welcome here for a healthy debate, which should always be carried out in a civilized fashion. If you have anything constructive to say, we are listening. If, on the other hand, you run out of ideas and start flaming other people because you can no longer argue intelligibly, then you will be ignored.

    Consider this a friendly warning.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Teapot8:59 PM

    Anthony,
    Is is very interesting to me that u believe "Zionist goals include eventual world hegemony"
    Now I realise my earlier attempts to suggests different view about Israel are meaningless because u see the Jews as power hungry crazies.
    I note, that some Arabs and Iran claim loudly that they want to impose Sharia law on the world.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Dear teapot,

    I took care in stating in an earlier comment:

    What I am trying to convey to the reader is the notion that it is only a very small percentage of Jewish ‘eminent leaders’ which, having seized the right climate in which to diffuse their message, mobilized millions in fulfillment of their hegemonic plans.

    What this entails is that I do not regard all Jews as Zionists. However, I do consider that a good number of Jews adhere to Zionist views without knowing it, since it has been unwillingly beaten into them by means of propaganda.

    I reiterate that what is being argued right now is only a preface to forthcoming material which will clarify the sum of my views on the topic.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Nobody, what a baseless and silly accusation.

    Teapot, if you honsetly read the post carefully, you would see that nowhere does it say that Anthony believes that Israel wants to control the world militarily and impose it's will as analogous to the fanatic muslim will you mentioned above which is abhoring. Also, please elucidate on the Israel you would like to portray, as most of your comments on this post, and others do not do your cause any justice.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Kronos said...

    Nobody, what a baseless and silly accusation.

    Teapot, if you honsetly read the post carefully, you would see that nowhere does it say that Anthony believes that Israel wants to control the world militarily and impose it's will as analogous to the fanatic muslim will you mentioned above which is abhoring. Also, please elucidate on the Israel you would like to portray, as most of your comments on this post, and others do not do your cause any justice.

    --------

    kronos ... i dont know what you are reading. This is what anthony posted a few lines above.

    ---------------------

    Anthony said...

    to nobody:

    by pointing out that Zionism has come to resemble National Socialism, I was referring to notions of ethnic supremacy, not necessarily NSist ideology of constant nationalist expansion. Indeed, Zionist goals include eventual world hegemony, but that's a secret, and I would greatly appreciate it if you didn't tell anybody.

    ----

    Anyway. Its of course none of my business what people choose to believe in. If you , kronos, consider this insanity as an intelectual view , its your matter. But as a person who indeed read mein kampf and other stuff I can assure that this is where the nazies started.

    Its for your own good , not for the good of the jews , to keep thinking sanely and keep yourselves and your people from sliding into paranoias. If you doubt my words read something about nazism and the ww2. You will get a very clear idea what sort of disasters the nations can inflict on themselves if people are start overindulging in wild conspiracy theories and other insanities.

    Consider this a friendly warning.

    Bye all

    ReplyDelete
  35. Nobody, I know alot about WW2, and yes the Nazis did have "paranoic" views of the jews wanting world domination, but this in no way entails/implies that anybody with this view has to necessarily become a racist/supremacist just like the Nazis. Here, at this Blog, we do not condone hatred of any people, race, and religion. The fact that you cannot comprehend this fact is what drives you to make baseless accusations. We are all open to discussions at this blog, and the fact that instead of attremptng to refute such claims on this post, you just make side and baseless accusations against us resulting in the digression of the main point of the post is just a pitty.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Following the general trend in the comments on this post, I would like to mention a few of my thoughts and clarifications:

    We live in a world where everybody is trying to strive for more subject to their restrictions. Sometimes, people together can mobilize themselves as a group and start striving for more as a people. The "cake" we all-as people and individuals- strive for is zero sum om nature. Now, in the event that a people or individual striving for more actually results in one group/individual harming the other in this quest, this is where the problem arises in this day and age of humanitarianism.

    To elucidate on the above: we do not condone what the Nazis did to the Jews of Europe on humanitarian grounds, it is just dispicable and abhoring. Also, we do not condone what the Zionist manifestation of Israel today,as defined in this post, does to the Lebanese and Palestinian people on humanitarian grounds.

    ReplyDelete
  37. kronos, it is still deceptive to juxtapose the two in the same paragraph. Jews never sent Arabs or Muslims to slaughter or exile by the million. However, Arabs and Muslims have done that in the past century - the Turks to the Armenians, the Arabs to the Jews and Assyrians, Kurds, and Dafurians... Really, is it not today's hate-filled Arabs and Muslims (not all Arabs and Muslims, of course) exclusively who rank up there with the Nazis and Communists in their determination and accomplishments at eliminating, enslaving, or raping entire peoples, and not out of self-preservation but out of the desire for power over others?

    ReplyDelete
  38. Anonymous4:24 AM

    The Fourth Geneva Convention states clearly that it only protects those who uphold it. Lebanon (HA being the active representative of Lebanon) didn't uphold it, therefor, the Lebanese don't get its protection

    ReplyDelete
  39. Solomon2, it is not deceptive to juxtapose these two at all. In both cases, the Nazis were striving for more by harming the Jewish communities of Europe which constitutes as human rights violations, and the Israelis are currently striving for more by harming the Palestinian communities in the occupied territories. And to be more precise about how the Israeli govenrment is harming the Palesitnian communities in the occupied territorries is the evident human rights violations that occur in the occupied territories everyday. For example, the Israeli government uproots Palestinian communities in the occupied territoires and then introduces Israeli settlers on these lands instead, which is against any decent standard on human rights. Some of these Palestinians end up being homeless and have no other means to survive, hence perish, while others end up in Israeli Jails. This is no different than how the Nazis uprooted Jewish familes from their homes and re-located them in the ghettos after which they were bound for concentration camps. Also, by doing that(above),Israel is attempting to erase a whole existence of a people-the Palestinian people- on this land by this Settler Colonization tactic. For more info on how the Israeli government uses propaganda to conceal the truth of these issues from the world, do see the documentary titled "Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land." Both Nazis and Israelis are one and the same in their quest for the "Cake." They are both willing to harm another people to achieve this.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Teapot8:21 AM

    Kronos,
    I don't think I misunderstood this sentence "Indeed, Zionist goals include eventual world hegemony, but that's a secret, and I would greatly appreciate it if you didn't tell anybody."

    To Answer u about my view of Israel:
    Jews see the land of Israel as "the land they came from". The Zionist movement was about establishing a secular Jewish state in Israel. This movement started more than 100 years ago, at that time there were no states in this region (no Lebanon, no Jordan, and no Syria). It is that simple.

    "nobody" asked why u call Israelis "Zionists" because Zionism ended when Israel became a state. But as u guys explained Zionism in your opinion has a greater cause of worldwide control.

    When I was younger I thought that if Arabs watch "Seinfeld" they might see the Jews as people, not monsters. I now understand that it does not matter what Jews say or do, since, in the Arab mind, the Jews always have a secret sinister plan.

    ReplyDelete
  41. kronos

    i decided to came back to clear the issue. I am not talking about holocaust and about humanitarian issues. Also i dont expect from the arabs and muslims respect or love or whatever. When 'debate' says 'hell with you and i would like to see all of you in hell' its ok as far as i am concerned.

    But the post by anthony started with the claim that jews , ok some jews in Israel. has a secret agenda of dominating the world which makes Israel similar to german nazies. To which of course i am saying that this conspiracy theory was a fundamental part of nazism worldview itself.

    Why it was supposed to be only me to draw the attention of people to this very obvious fact ? Whats the point of using the german national socialism as a negative example if one subscribes to one of its basic doctrines? where is logic in this ? if one shares the german nazi view that some secret jewish counsil is pulling strings behind the scene of major historical events in the aim to establish jewish hegemony over other nations then what is the point of condemning the german national socialists ?

    Finally if u look for understanding with people , then these people are posting right now on your blog. If you instead prefer to believe this nonsense then you would have to go to search for the elders of zion to have a debate with them. I doubt you will have such a debate any time soon.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Kronos said...

    Solomon2, it is not deceptive to juxtapose these two at all. In both cases, the Nazis were striving for more by harming the Jewish communities of Europe which constitutes as human rights violations, and the Israelis are currently striving for more by harming the Palestinian communities in the occupied territories.

    ----

    Kronos

    The nazies were not not trying to harm the jewish communities in Europe. There were no jewish communities left after ww2. And it happened over a very short period of the time. The only thing that remotely approaches this in the history of this region was saddam's anfal operations against the kurds when he switched to using chemical weapons.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Teapot,
    Jews are not the only people that see this particular piece of land as "the land they came from", and it does not matter whether their was a claim to it 100 years ago or not since many communities were living there during the period of the claim and even prior to it. For this reason, and the fact that Jews also believe that they come from this land too, is grounds for both communities to have the right to eixst there. Personally, I don't believe that Israel has no right to exist, rather it is that Israel has the right to co-exist on this special piece of land.

    Also, the point of this particular post is that, the Israeli government will go too far to control the situation ie. manipulation of international and local media. This tells us- the lebanese- alot about the nature of the Israeli government and what it is capable of doing which we must certainly take into account as our nations probably will deal with one another in the future to come.

    Please see my new post titled "A Documentary for the Brainwashed, Disillusioned, & Politically Confused," it is linked to the documentary I mentioned a countless number of times in comments I traded with my readers including yourself titled, "Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land." After watching it, I think you can begin to understand our position a little bit.

    Also note that, none of us think of all Israelis as monsters, and please note the issue is not with Jews as opposed to Israelis since not all Jews are Israeli
    By the way, Seinfeld is a funny show.

    ReplyDelete
  44. It's still deceptive. The murky phrase "striving for more" hides the great difference in degree of Nazi and Israeli conduct. There is plenty of difference betweeen them. Israeli conduct is the minimum necessary for security - which is what makes Israel such an attractive target to those who wish to extinguish her. Nazi conduct was aimed at extermination or domination. Your examples aren't particularly valid - millions of Arabs are citizens of Israel, and Palestinians in occupied territory aren't displaced en masse - and they certainly pale in comparison to the conduct of the Arabs since Mohammed and continuing to the present day - for Sudan today and Afghanistan under Taliban rule are direct instances of Arabs displacing entire communities, and even Europe is experiencing this as native Swedes get pushed out of Malmo, or the French out of Marseille. Today, only the operations of militant Arabs and Muslims are comparable to the Nazi activities of the past. Every allegation otherwise turns out, in the end, to be fibs militant Arabs and Muslims invoke to justify saying, "we're just using the methods they are using", "we're not any worse than anybody else", etc.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Solomon2,

    Here's an example of the "minimum necessary" Israeli conduct you were referring to:

    Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews protesting the desecration of graves by a highway construction project near Haifa were attacked and brutally beaten by private security guards hired by the Ministry of Transportation.

    The group, known for being outspokenly critical of the State of Israel and its very existence were peacefully demonstrating at the time. This attack follows a long history of violence against the Orthodox Jewish community.

    Consistent with fundamental Jewish beliefs, some of these protesters often take part in demonstrations, side by side with Palestinians, against the State of Israel and its inhuman policies toward the Palestinian people." The apparent strategy of using organized violence through private security personnel against these peaceful protesters is only one of many tactics used by the State of Israel to intimidate and discourage further protests. The police were nowhere to be found at the time or even hours after the melee. Several Rabbis and children were attacked with electric stun gun devices and knives, requiring some to be hospitalized.

    Among the injured were Rabbi Leibl Deutsch and Rabbi Yisroel Rothchild, both of Jerusalem who were stabbed in the lower back and leg respectively. The Jewish cemetery at the heart of the incident dates back to the Second Temple era, over 2000 years ago.Some of the caves that comprise the cemetery have been destroyed as a result of the ongoing highway work and there are heightened fears of further desecration as the highway project continues unabated.


    Security Guards use electric stun guns on the demonstrators

    ReplyDelete
  46. Solomon2, it is neither deceptive to juxtapose Nazis dealings with respect to the jews and that of the Israeli Settler ethnic cleansing program, nor is it murky to place the phrase the way i did, since, harming a people is not a question of degree in getting more of the "cake," you either are or are not harming others...it is that simple to grasp.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Teapot9:23 PM

    Anthony,
    The rabbis protesting the "highway construction project" is another example of how insane this group is. Archaeologist don't share their claims. The graves are probably of Arabs, not Jews. It is not a crime to move graves of Jews (or non Jews) to a proper place.

    They should get electric shocks, but from a certified personal in an insane asylum.

    ReplyDelete
  48. teapot,

    I don't care what it was they were protecting. Get it in your head that this present era of Israeli impunity will eventually come to an end. History will judge you.

    ReplyDelete
  49. anthony: I have yet to discover anything written or said by the NK guys that can be taken at face value. I haven't heard of this incident from any other source. Brutal behavior by Israeli security forces towards other Jews is usually associated with Jewish removals from "Arab" territory.

    kronos: harming a people is not a question of degree

    That's like the Muslim theologians who maintain that I am engaging in terrorism if I injure a Muslim by accidentally stepping on his foot! Explain immediately why your attitude should be respected.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Teapot, this quote has nothing to do with Islam and it's theology. It only asserts that you cannot say that you have to kill a million people to be declared harmful to the world, conditional on the act being purposefully as opposed to accidentally aggressive. So this rules out any accidental foot stepping on muslims or anyone. At then end, if any one is purposefully harming another to strive for abigger piece of the "cake", then on humanitarian grounds this is not acceptable and dispicable.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Sorry Teapot, my last comment was addressed to Solomon2.

    ReplyDelete
  52. I notice that some people here have strange illusions about our orthodox. NK is a small group of a few hundreds or thousands people who oppose Israel as a secular state. They use the palestinian issue just as a pretext. Their main reasons is tolerance of homosexuality and sexual promiscuity which they view as satanic.

    The mainstream orthodox are absolutely no arab sympathisers. Especially because during the last intifada hamas and jihad were staging attacks inside orthodox getthos. One day they bombed an orthodox wedding all the way into the synagogue. On another occasion they blew up a bus full of worshippers coming from the western wall. In fact the orthodox practice arab hatred extensively and in general you would find it much easier to talk to what you call secular zionists like me or teapot than to anybody from the orthodox gethhos of jerusalem. I lived 15 years in jerusalem and had a daily first hand experience with these people.

    Our orthodox are the same fundamentalists as hamas or muslim brothers. Jewish religion is not missionary so they dont plant bombs and shoot other people. But they are absolutely the same fundamentalists in any other way.

    It amazes me all these misinformed myths and paranoias that are on display here. First, zionist conspiracy. Then orthodox judaism as a religion of universal brotherhood.

    ReplyDelete
  53. nobody,

    I think you would better serve your cause by refraining from saying anything. Where did you get the idea that I support Orthodox Judaism? Don’t you see that it’s the blind hatred for anything opposing Zionism that I want to expose in the mainstream Israeli mindset?

    You are too hasty in drawing your conclusions. Patience is a virtue you know.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Interesting to see Lebanese contest the creation of the state of Israel. Modern Lebanon is itself a colonial construct!

    ReplyDelete

Powered by Blogger.